Ep. 38: Bern After Yeeting (w/ US Youth Climate Strike & the Gravel Teens)

Ep. 38: Bern After Yeeting (w/ US Youth Climate Strike & the Gravel Teens)

A recent national poll found 52 percent of 18 to 34-year-old voters support Bernie in the Democratic primary, compared to just 2 percent for Pete Buttigieg, a millennial himself. Why do young people overwhelmingly support a 78-year-old Senator for president? To find out, Briahna spoke to some of the most politically engaged young people around, including the leadership of US Youth Climate Strike, the teenage masterminds of Mike Gravel's progressive presidential campaign, and Bernie 2020's own interns.

Then, the campaign’s Relational Organizing Director, Emily Isaac, gives us a rundown of BERN 2.0, the campaign’s secret weapon for organizing the people in your life.

US Youth Climate Strike on Twitter: https://twitter.com/usclimatestrike

Transcript

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: So, when they say these policies are dangerous, they're not dangerous to this country; they are dangerous to the established order and the distribution of wealth in America. That's what it's dangerous for. And for that, I'm happy to be a dangerous woman. Because we should all be dangerous.

Briahna Joy Gray: Happy holidays, everyone. No matter what you celebrate, if anything at all, it's the right time of year to evangelize about why Bernie Sanders is the most likely candidate to beat Donald Trump.

Now, I know you've heard me say this before. And I gotta remind you, this is not subjective truth, but objective reality. And during the holidays, I need you to hit this message with the same gusto of a Motown Christmas drumline.

Here's the case. In matchups with Trump, Bernie out-performs the field, consistently leading by double digit margins, unlike most of the current candidates who struggle to get out of the margin of error. Much like a certain 2016 Democratic candidate. Bernie is the only candidate with more individual donations than Trump. And he has raised more money without taking big money than any other Democratic candidate.

Bernie has no trouble earning the money needed to keep up with Trump, even without wine cave fundraisers. And the numbers of donations he's received are evidence of a real grassroots army, willing to fight for him just as hard, nay, harder, than Trump supporters. In fact, Bernie has a more committed base than any other candidate. Bernie is the strongest candidate in important Rust Belt states we needed to win in 2016. And he's the strongest among the largest racial minority in America, Latinos, who are crucial to winning both the primary and the general, now that southwestern states are increasingly battleground states.

You might not hear this anywhere else, but the leading candidate with non-white voters? That's Bernie Sanders.

The kinda cool thing, though, coalition-wise, is that Bernie is popular with non-white voters and white voters alike, including the non-college educated white voters that made much of the difference in 2016. And this? This right here is important.

As we saw during the debate last week, Bernie is uniquely resilient to arguments about corruption. While other candidates went back and forth about who transferred corporate money from Senate accounts, and who has the most billionaire donors, no smoke came Bernie's way. And why is that? Because no one can argue that Bernie hasn't always practiced what he's preached, with respect to ethical fundraising.

Remember when Trump was able to attack Hillary on her ties to Wall Street and corporate interests? Whether or not you think those attacks were fair, if Buttigieg and Warren were able to do that to each other, imagine what Trump will be able to do to them.

Bernie has the most enthusiasm behind him, as evidenced by having the largest crowds of the election cycle, the best endorsements (shout out to the Squad), and crucially, for the sake of this episode, Bernie Sanders has the youth vote on lock.

This reality has been driving pundits crazy. Why, they ask, do the youths love the old white guy? Why is it more difficult to find a Buttigieg vote under 40 than a flattering pair of low-cut jeans? Do they not see in Mayor Pete a reflection of their own dewy youth incarnate?

To answer that question, I spoke to some of the most politically engaged teens and young adults around, for our hotly anticipated youth episode.

This is Hear the Bern, a podcast about the people, ideas, and politics that are driving the Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign, and the movement to secure a dignified life for everyone living in this country. My name is Briahna Joy Gray. And I'm coming to you from campaign headquarters in Washington, DC.

This week, I spoke to four board members of environmental activist group, US Youth Climate Strike, cofounded by Isra Hirsi, daughter of representative Ilhan Omar of Minnesota. We previewed this episode a couple of weeks ago, so if you listen regularly, you already know it's about to be wild. Yes, the kids did come through with the hot pickle ASMR.

Next, I chatted with the Gravel teens, two young men who were the communications powerhouse behind progressive candidate Mike Gravel's 2020 campaign. And I rounded out the interviews with a round table of Bernie 2020 interns in conversation with Delaney Vandergrift, our outreach coordinator for HBCUs, a recent graduate of a historically black college herself. I asked Delaney and our two press interns, who literally read everything that comes out about this race, and a policy intern who knows the issues like the back of her hand, whether and how their perception of Bernie's 2020 campaign changed once they started working here. Is the Bernie Blackout really real?

If this episode makes you feel a little long in the tooth, don't worry, some of my favorite progressives are in their 70s. Stick around until the end, because we've included an important tutorial for our unprecedented organizing tool, the BERN app. Last week, we released an updated version with even more incredible features, and our relational organizing director, Emily Isaac, walks us through how you can use the app to organize your friends and family over the holidays and during the next six short weeks until Iowa.

The BERN app has over 100,000 users already. But if it's not on your phone, you're missing out on one of the easiest ways to advance the progressive revolution. All right. Let's do this.

I'm here with the cofounder and many board members, is that what you would call it?

Isra Hirsi: Yeah, I'd say ED.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Briahna Joy Gray: Okay. Of US Youth Climate Strike.

Isra Hirsi: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Feliquan Charlemagne: Yeah.

Briahna Joy Gray: Um, an organization that's obviously about climate activism that you co-founded earlier this year, right?

Isra Hirsi: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Briahna Joy Gray: So, can we go around and introduce ourselves, and tell me why you're in DC today?

Isra Hirsi: My name's Isra. I'm the cofounder and partnerships director for US Youth Climate Strike, and I guess I'm here today to... in DC to work with my fellow organizers, and you know, create a plan moving forward for US Youth Climate Strike, and we're all here on a retreat and I'm super excited.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Yeah, I'm Feliquan Charlemagne, I am the executive director of US Youth Climate Strike, and, yeah, we're here for our executive strategy retreat, strategizing how we're going to win bold climate policy in 2020.

Daylon Prochaska: I'm Daylon Prochaska, the political director of USYCS. And, yeah, we're here to, you know, build community within the team especially in order to, you know, work together more effectively, and actually get this stuff passed.

Pujan Patel: I'm Pujan Patel, creative director of US Youth Climate Strike. And I'm here today to also create strategy on how to dismantle the fossil fuel industry.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, I hear a little bit of voice loss over here. Is it because you've been having a really active, engaged...

Feliquan Charlemagne: Yeah.

Briahna Joy Gray: Fun time?

Feliquan Charlemagne: [laughs] That's exact... [crosstalk 00:07:55] that's why, yeah.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, I just met some of the rest of the crew outside, and you guys have been teaching me a lot. Not just about climate activism, but about how the youth communicate.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. [laughs]

Briahna Joy Gray: And in fact, we just did my first TikTok.

Feliquan Charlemagne: TikTok. [laughs]

Briahna Joy Gray: That last time you were here in the studios recording your endorsement videos, you told me that you also thought it would be a good idea for Bernie to do ASMR.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Yes. Yes. [crosstalk 00:08:21]

Briahna Joy Gray: That reaction was out of control. Okay, so, for the people who don't know, what is ASMR?

Pujan Patel: I think I remember the term.

Briahna Joy Gray: Okay.

Pujan Patel: [crosstalk 00:08:32] [laughs]

Feliquan Charlemagne: I think I remember the term.

Isra Hirsi: It's like... it's like...

Pujan Patel: Auto-sensory meridian... or...

Isra Hirsi: I think it's like auditory...

Feliquan Charlemagne: [crosstalk 00:08:38]

Briahna Joy Gray: Translate that for...

Isra Hirsi: Essentially, ASMR is like this like sensory-type sound where people like use mics and they make sounds, either whisper into a mic or eat things and tap things, and it gives people sensations if they can...

Pujan Patel: Tingling.

Isra Hirsi: Yeah, if they can feel ASMR, not everybody can. But...

Briahna Joy Gray: Okay. So, why- why is it a thing? Like, why Bernie doing ASMR, why does that make you guys who excited?

Isra Hirsi: I think it's...

Daylon Prochaska: It's just ironic.

Isra Hirsi: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:09:06]

Pujan Patel: I think it's just like funny, like...

Daylon Prochaska: Uh-huh.

Pujan Patel: And I feel like it would get the youth vote.

Daylon Prochaska: Bro. [crosstalk 00:09:12] Don't word it like that, it's not... [crosstalk 00:09:17] like it's a prank, that's not how it is.

Isra Hirsi: We just want... I think we just want, you know, the campaign to do more things that are I guess a little bit more on the fun side, and appealing to Gen Z, and I think that includes things like ASMR and things like TikTok. And I think we all think it's hilarious, if he would like start whispering into a mic, or like, you know, eat a chicken wing.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Please don't.

Isra Hirsi: On camera. [laughs]

Feliquan Charlemagne: Please don't have Bernie do that. [laughs]

Isra Hirsi: I think it's hilarious.

Daylon Prochaska: Don't listen to Feliquan.

Feliquan Charlemagne: No, you guys can do a TikTok, that's like gray. But like if Bernie actually does an ASMR, like...

Daylon Prochaska: That would be incredible.

Feliquan Charlemagne: That’s kinda cringey, you know...

Daylon Prochaska: No.

Feliquan Charlemagne: [crosstalk 00:09:41]

Isra Hirsi: ... nix that, maybe we should just try it.

Feliquan Charlemagne: I heard that. [laughs] I heard that. I can hear myself.

Isra Hirsi: That makes sense though. Thank you.

Feliquan Charlemagne: These are actually good. What the heck?

Pujan Patel: What did I say?

Briahna Joy Gray: You got this.

Pujan Patel: Yay, we're [inaudible 00:10:04] for this. But it tastes good, doesn't it?

Feliquan Charlemagne: Eh, it's not that good, actually.

Briahna Joy Gray: No?

Feliquan Charlemagne: It was good at first. Does no one else want to take the like...

Isra Hirsi: Yeah, I'll take it.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mantle off of me? Yeah. That feels so much better.

Briahna Joy Gray: It's not loud enough?

Isra Hirsi: I don't know. We'll see.

Feliquan Charlemagne: No, it's loud enough. Trust me.

Isra Hirsi: It's just not good ASMR.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Ah, we need [crosstalk 00:10:23]...

Briahna Joy Gray: This is so insane.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Like you can like hear yourself, it's weird.

Pujan Patel: [inaudible 00:10:26]

Feliquan Charlemagne: Wow.

Briahna Joy Gray: Actually, I'm actually like really uncomfortable with the sound. Like, this is actually kind of... like, it's just like... it's so like amplified in my ears.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Out of all the places that I thought like I would end up becoming a climate activism...

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Sitting in like [crosstalk 00:10:46] where...

Briahna Joy Gray: At Bernie HQ doing ASMR?

Feliquan Charlemagne: Yeah. Yeah, not one of them.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, maybe ASMR isn't a path forward to the revolution.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Maybe not.

Briahna Joy Gray: But can you guys tell us maybe what is? Because it is true that despite not having done a TikTok, yet, Bernie is trending big-time with your age group.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Briahna Joy Gray: So, why do you think that is?

Pujan Patel: The youth vote ultimately, despite not doing these things that are like particularly engaging for our audience, ultimately, a lot of us are really cognizant about his policies. So, you know, policies that really impact us, because a lot of us are either working class or lower middle class. And so you know, free health care, free college, things that impact us right in this very moment is the reason why we're so particularly attracted to him, especially with the fact that his track record has been, even past generations, you know, his history has always been there. You know, he's been like this since day one, throughout like when he got arrested in that one photo, you know the one I'm talking about.

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah.

Pujan Patel: Yeah.

Briahna Joy Gray: And there's a video even.

Pujan Patel: Yeah. His policy ultimately just shines through. I think it's really... it really does work out in the end. Because we all are aware of how his presidency will impact us if he wins, which hopefully he does.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, I've heard... I've read, actually, an article saying that at first, you felt like the climate movement wasn't for you, the way it was described, the way it was pitched, as it seemed like a whiter movement, a more affluent movement, where the focus seemed to be on, you know, saving nature and trees and preserving the ability to go on hiking trips and things like that. What changed for you? What enabled you to see yourself more in the movement?

Isra Hirsi: I feel like it's still like that.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Isra Hirsi: To a very large extent. And I think it's like, yes, you can have people, you know, that like look like us right here in these spaces, but that doesn't mean that the space has changed.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Isra Hirsi: You still have the really white, big NGOs that have the resources but aren't really doing the work that needs to be done. And I think it hasn't changed as much, but it's more a conversation, and I think seeing things like the Green New Deal, and seeing like Bernie's climate policy, like actually shows that like people are talking about...

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Isra Hirsi: Communities of color, and front-line communities, but we need to see that in action, we need to see people taking control of these very affluent and large, big NGOs, and also creating space for people that are literally dying because of this.

Briahna Joy Gray: People are surprised that this group would be pro-Bernie, not just because of your age, but also because of like the racial demographics, right? There was... there was this perception, I think, that brown people want to vote for brown people...

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Briahna Joy Gray: Kind of exclusively.

Isra Hirsi: Yeah.

Briahna Joy Gray: And that, I think, is not the case, particularly when I talk to younger people, you know, you put the policies front and center, when you were describing your, you know, why you support Bernie.

Pujan Patel: Yeah.

Briahna Joy Gray: You know, what do you think is going on with older generations and the way they perceive of kind of identity?

Pujan Patel: So, I obviously think that we're all becoming more aware of the role that identity politics has.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Pujan Patel: And so, we're seeing how people who capitalize on this have policies that don't really reflect the needs and issues of these communities. And so more and more people are realizing that identity politics just is, you know, ultimately, it matters about what are you gonna do for us, you know, not by the color of our skin, not by the identities in which we identify with, you know, not by the labels that we choose to or whatnot.

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah.

Pujan Patel: It's ultimately by what we're advocating for. And have we done it in the past or not.

Briahna Joy Gray: When I was watching a lot of your endorsement videos, several of you mentioned that your... the parent... the countries from which your parents emigrated were all dealing with some kind of environmental crisis, or some other kind of infrastructural crisis, and that really spotlighted how important managing or dealing with climate change was for you personally. Can you talk a little bit about how your personal experiences and backgrounds make you perhaps more committed to climate activism?

Feliquan Charlemagne: Yeah. I mean, for me, that's not even just like, you know, my... where my parents came from. Like, I was literally born there. Um, and like when I was two months old, I had to move away from St. Thomas. It's actually part of the US, and, you know, that's.... just goes to show, it's not even just affecting people all around the world. There are floods in the Midwest, there's places, especially US territories, like Puerto Rico going through Hurricane Irma, and my own island going through Hurricane Irma. My grandma had to move here to Florida, and just here in Florida, we're experiencing the same exact things.

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah.

Feliquan Charlemagne: So, yeah. I mean, it's just... it's a problem that you can't just... you can't just move from country to country to avoid it. It's going to follow you wherever you go, and eventually, that's going to be a problem that the entire globe has to deal with.

Isra Hirsi: Yeah. Um, my parents were born in Somalia, and they came here as refugees because of the war. But I've never been, and in the past few years, since the war, and even before then, there have been massive floods, where there has been over 200,000 people have been displaced, and hundreds have been killed, and as a person who's never been able to see, you know, her motherland due to things like the civil war that ended in 2016, and also these insane climate disasters, it's like, I don't know whether or not I'll ever be able to, and have the ability to, where I can go to a country that is safe and see the place where my parents grew up and know as their home.

I guess, you know, it's just helping, and like making sure that Somalia is able to still stay afloat with all of these really horrible climate disasters.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Yeah.

Pujan Patel: I've never really... I can sort of relate with Isra on that level. I mean, India hasn't gone through like, you know, it hasn't been war-struck nearly as much as Somalia has. But like, in Gujarat, the climate- climate crisis is like such a... it's like a hotbed of uncertainty, especially in really urban dense areas.

And so I've only been to India once in my life, and, you know, I haven't really got to know my extended family, but like, I always have this like looming thought in my head, every time I've tried to go, every time I've had the privilege and opportunity to go, there's always something that comes up, and almost nine out of ten times, has to do something like that.

And my family's always been lucky, and I talked with... I'm pretty sure that's in my endorsement video, when I talk about that. But how long are they gonna be lucky for? You know, I want to get to know my family. I want to get to know my heritage and my home... my homeland, you know? But I don't know if I'll ever get that opportunity. And it's something that's really scary to grasp with.

As I started to get more and more involved in this movement, you know, I started doing more and more research into my motherland, really, and it's just honestly scary. That's all I can describe it as.

Briahna Joy Gray: I really appreciate the extent to which your generation seems to feel more exigency than even mine. I mean, we had like polar bears on icebergs, and, you know, we got rid of, you know, the ozone hole, so like, we didn't not do anything. But this is... this really feels different. So, for people who want to get more involved, what do you think that they should do? How can they support your organization, where should they go to find you guys?

Daylon Prochaska: Right. Well, we have... we are US Youth Climate Strike, and we organize strikes fairly often, and you go to our- our Instagram would be the best place that you can go, US Youth Climate Strike. And from there, we'll... we post about strikes that we have, and they're usually nationwide, and in every state, in most cities. And from there, you can get more involved, you know, join the organization, and begin to do more than just attending a sort of apolitical strike protest, but can begin to actually draft demands and draft actual organization and infrastructure that can begin to actually make change.

Isra Hirsi: And to clarify, it's @usclimatestrike on both Instagram and Twitter.

Briahna Joy Gray: Perfect. Great. And last question, why Bernie?

Daylon Prochaska: Who starts?

Briahna Joy Gray: It can't just be the TikToks.

Isra Hirsi: Okay, I'll go. I feel like, you know, ever since he started when I was in middle school, I always feel like there's all of these candidates and all of these like possibilities of who to support. But in reality, I feel like, you know, somebody who hits all the points, and everything that I care about, is only one person, you know? Nobody has the insanely extensive climate plan, nobody talks about things like line three happening in Minnesota, nobody talks about things that are like impacting real people, in the instance of like what, how I align myself. And I feel like, you know, Bernie's hit all the points, and I feel like he's the only option, honestly, and it's the only way we can move away from where we are today.

Feliquan Charlemagne: I mean, for me, I think that Bernie, really, the way he organized his campaign, and the way he's kind of run his entire life, he kind of has what I kind of call like an organizer mindset. Right? So, Bernie goes into things, and he says, "I have these sets of values. I want us to have a sustainable planet, and I want this and this and that." And he goes forward thinking, how can I get people to agree with me? Um, he doesn't go forward and say, what do the polls say, what does everyone already think, he comes in to change the conversation for the better.

That's how he's run the 2016 campaign, that's how he's running the 2020 campaign. And that's why you see all these ideas that he had in 2016. Everyone, "Oh, that's so radical, that'll never happen." All of the sudden, the entire 2020 field is basing their entire campaign on the same set of values that Bernie started with in 2016. He's a leader, he's a conversation changer. He's not going out there saying, you know, again, what do the polls say? He's coming in with the right values, and that's why he's gonna end up winning in the long run.

Briahna Joy Gray: Right on, I like that confidence.

Daylon Prochaska: Uh, I think even... it even comes down to just the way that we think about how change happens, in- in the sense that it does not come directly from the top up. It comes from the bottom. And the thing about Bernie is that there has become such a massive working-class energy around Bernie, and the campaign that he's- he's waging. Because the issues that he speaks to are the issues that speak to working people. They are of the most central struggles to their lives, you know? Housing medical. All of these things.

And the... it reflects, in the sense that Bernie was sort of... he has working-class support because Bernie has presented such a consistency over all of the decades in which he has had any sort of platform, all the way back to when he was, you know, even a member of... a member of the Socialist party. He's been... he has always been advocating these policies, and these policies have become more and more prevalent and like relevant to the material conditions of the working-class. And for that reason, he's skyrocketed, and will continue to do so.

Pujan Patel: Honestly because his policies reflect my needs, my family's needs, the needs of the working-class. Today or yesterday, he released a high-speed access for all plan, which is, if you don't know, net neutrality's under so much constant threat, by administration, by the FCC, it's honestly ridiculous, because the internet is a basic necessity. And the fact that there is such a disparity of access alone just makes it harder for us to do the things that we need to do as our world progresses.

And a lot of us are low-income, or lower middle class. We cannot afford to go to college like that. We simply can't. There's absolutely no reason why we need to go into debt. There's absolutely no reason why we have to consider dying instead of getting medical care and going broke over that. What's ridiculous is that we have to do these things. We have to accommodate for the top 1%. The top 1% should accommodate for us, period. [laughs] Like, in any situation. I shouldn't have to consider taking Uber over an ambulance to a hospital.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative], right.

Pujan Patel: To get emergency care. Like, stuff like this is the reason why I'm advocating for Bernie, because all the stuff that's going on is so ridiculous. It's something that shouldn't be happening. Like if you talk to anyone outside of America, with an industrialized system like health care or anything like that...

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Pujan Patel: They will be surprised.

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah.

Pujan Patel: Like, your campaign team even recorded a video just about that too.

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah, it really actually warms my heart to hear you guys talking about what you feel like you deserve because you're human beings.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Briahna Joy Gray: Because there are so many people before this movement, before Bernie in 2016, and many, many people today, who still haven't really internalized the idea that we've gotten used to a world that is not, a country and an administration, governments, that are not serving our interests an iota of what they actually should be doing. Right? And that the reason that we don't have nice things isn't this lie that we can't afford them, it's because we have misplaced priorities.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Briahna Joy Gray: And that we've been taught that if you're poor, it's because you didn't work hard enough. Um, that everything bad that happens to you is your fault. That the rich are some kind of super-geniuses that deserve to have billions and billions of dollars. And the confidence and assuredness with which you are all articulating that you have basic rights as- as human beings, and basic dignity and basic expectations to live in a society as affluent as ours is, it's humbling and it's so exciting, because this is a level of work that we're not gonna have to do with your generation, and you guys can help us continue to...

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Briahna Joy Gray: ... normalize these ideas...

Feliquan Charlemagne: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Briahna Joy Gray: ... for other generations who, you know, have to do a lot of deprogramming. So, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate all of your contributions. And I hope to see you out on the streets, in the fields soon, organizing.

Isra Hirsi: [crosstalk 00:23:20], yeah.

Feliquan Charlemagne: Thank you.

Daylon Prochaska: Hopefully. [laughs]

Speaker: Young people have just had enough. None of us just woke up one day and decided, you know what would be really nice? Going on strike today, missing school, and then like teaching politicians how to do their jobs. How many more of us young people have to sacrifice our future before you'll declare a climate emergency and have real action? How many more, Governor Baker? How many more?

Audience: How many more? How many more? How many more?

Briahna Joy Gray: So, I'm really excited to be here after a long day of climate activism, global climate strikes, with the Henrys of the Gravel gang. Thank you so much for being here with me. Can you introduce yourself to people who might not know about you and the campaign that you just finished up on?

Henry Williams: Yeah, well, I'm Henry Williams. I was chief strategist of the Mike Gravel 2020 campaign. Basically, we try to utilize Twitter, online fundraiser, advertising, to raise awareness for anti-imperialism, for causes that we felt like were under-represented, and also in a lot of ways to push the conversation in America to the left. In some ways, to create a horizon, to the left even of Bernie Sanders, you know, to the left of the conversation we're willing to have today, and to expand sort of the realm of the possible in the political sphere.

Henry McGowan: My name's Henry McGowan, and I was the treasurer of the Mike Gravel campaign. And that campaign, which we raised for our summer between our freshman and sophomore years at college, we ended up qualifying for the second Democratic national debates by passing the 65,000 unique donor threshold.

In doing so, we blew a lot of barriers out of the water, being a campaign of an 89 year old former Senator, largely forgotten by mainstream Democratic politics, and a couple of kids, who in waging this on... very online campaign, managed to grow a larger grassroots organization than many established Democrats. People like Michael Bennett, former New York City mayor Bill DeBlasio, he had a fraction of the grassroots support than we did, after having spending millions and millions of dollars on high-paid consultants.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, how were you able to do it?

Henry Williams: Yeah, I mean, I think one thing that's key is that it wasn't really about us. It wasn't really about Mike. It was about what we were saying, and what it spoke to, particularly in young people. I mean, our donations came primarily from 18 to 30-year olds.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm.

Henry Williams: And so many of them said, "It's the first time I've ever donated to a political campaign. It's the first time I've ever really been engaged." You know, for a lot of people, this is their coming of age, electorally. This 2020 election, for me personally, after watching 2016, being unable to vote, having phone banked for Bernie way, way back in the Michigan 2015 primaries, I feel now like this is my first real chance. And I think there's a lot of young people who feel that way.

And so, for us, I mean, all we did was kind of read the winds a little bit. And I think what we realized is that there's this huge contingent of people who are not considered politically active, or not even really taken into account, in this sort of electoral math of mainstream media, but who really have this core of morality to them. And when you start talking to them about not just justice for people, and, you know, around the block, but people around the world, it speaks to them, it's meaningful.

I think growing up after the Iraq war, you know, in the sort of wake of that, we kind of center foreign policy in some ways, because we've just seen the devastating effects that America has had on the world.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, there is a cohort that hears people like you and folks like Bernie, who say, "Well, we're relying on a different coalition than is usually stimulated." Right? We're relying on folks who normally don't vote because they don't see, historically, the benefit, the change in their lives from election cycle to election cycle, right? They aren't usually spoken to, because we talk about... we literally call them voters versus non-voters, when we're talking about the population, and who we're speaking to in the political context.

We talk about taxpayers versus non-payers, right? You know, taxpayers or this, them, other. Although people who aren't taxpayers are usually non-taxpayers because either they're very, very wealthy and skipping out on what they owe, or because they are so low-income that they- they aren't required to, right? And are vulnerable people who would require more political attention, arguably, than other folks, right?

So, some people say, hear us say we're trying to activate people who don't normally see themselves as part of the process. And they say, "Well, that's naïve. How on earth do you think you're gonna be able to do that? Since it's unprecedented, it's really a lark to go out on that kind of a limb." What do you say to those sorts of skeptics?

Henry Williams: Yeah. Well, I think the response to those sorts of people, in my mind, is what we're really doing is I think bringing politics back to people. You know, away from this rarefied area it's occupied for- for decades. I mean, people don't experience their lives as taxpayers.

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah.

Henry Williams: Or- or even as citizens. They experience it as human beings. Members of families and communities. And that's the sort of human level of experiencing life. You know, when we talk about better politics, it's really about making politics relevant to people's human lives, and not to the world of, you know, signifiers and marketing. Because politics has really been a game for people for so long, and, you know, it's not, to the people that really matter. And to those... the people you're talking about, who are outside that coalition. You know?

It’s innately true, when you... when you sort of look at human beings, that mobilizing them based off their own interest and their own lives, is more compelling and more effective than the way that politics has worked in the past. And, you know, when 50% of people don't vote, it's such a vast untapped coalition. You don't necessarily need to succeed with everyone. If you can engage a couple of disaffected people, you can massively swing the result of elections.

Henry McGowan: Yeah, and I think politics of expanding the electorate to that 50%, the non-voters, I think is not only the morally conscious and correct politics to engage with in the current era, especially given who the administration is and the politics of- of humiliation, and of division, that elected Donald Trump in the first place. But I think it’s something that is a necessity in our democracy in the first place.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, what's next? What are you guys up to these days, apart from finishing college?

Henry McGowan: So, we are here in DC, not only to see you, and to be here at the Bernie HQ, but we have both recently joined the National Board of US Youth Climate Strike. I am serving as the director of finance.

Henry Williams: Yeah, and I'm serving as communications director. And bringing a little bit of Twitter fire to the... [laughs]

Briahna Joy Gray: Because you guys are like...

Henry Williams: To the approach it has.

Briahna Joy Gray: It’s about the issues, and totally, you know, I agree...

Henry Williams: For sure.

Briahna Joy Gray: But you know you guys are famous for being really good at the social media.

Henry Williams: Right.

Briahna Joy Gray: I seem to remember some pretty fun rolling papers that I... [laughs]

Henry Williams: Yeah. I mean, for us, it's always about connecting catharsis to political action. You know? People are frustrated by the world they live in. They're frustrated by their daily experience. And in a lot of ways, you know jokes, humor, and a little bit of kind of a harder edge represents an emotional expression of how people feel about the world around them.

You know, it's often said, when people criticize Bernie for being too angry, which is just about the most criticism I've ever heard. You should be angry. If you're not, you're not paying attention. And I think a big part of that is a recognition that that's how people really feel. And I think just the fact that the campaign connected with people proves that it works in a lot of ways.

I understand that people are turned off of it, but in reality, someone like Bernie Sanders represents, of the paragon of civility and decency, just on the level of human beings. You know, I don't care if someone smiles and shakes my hands and is nice to me, compared to whether I care about if they fight for my interests, if they fight for someone that they don't know. I mean, that matters so much more.

And so, for us, we're willing to be kind of hard on the outside and soft on the inside. [laughs] Which might be a description some people make of Bernie, you know?

Briahna Joy Gray: I like that. I like that a lot. Well, thank you so much for swinging by and making the time to chat with me, and hopefully we'll see you back around a lot. Um, and thank you for doing all the work that you continue to do, especially given all that's on your plate. I can't imagine being as engaged and involved as you are when I was your age. And I'm really humbled by you guys' activism.

Henry McGowan: I think there's no better time than now for people our age to get involved in- in politics. Um, and whether or not that's running a campaign of an 89-year-old former Senator and connecting with the Bernie campaign, or if it's something as simple as sitting down with your parents and talking to them about why there's a necessity to elect Bernie Sanders in 2020. There are so many things that we can do at our age, at 19, at ages as young as 16, and 15, and ages as old as 89 like Mike, to work to present the vision for America that we think is best.

Henry Williams: Yeah, and, you know, I think that because this is such an important moment, people keep asking, "Is something gonna be different this time?" You know, is it really going to change? And, you know, if you're a young person watching this, or just paying attention to the world around you, you can be the thing that is different. You know? If you are there, you're paying attention, I mean, all you gotta do is look at the views of people our age, and understand [laughs] that things have changed. And the only question is, are the people that are gonna be affected by the decisions we make today gonna take the political reins or, or when it's too late? You know, and I think that's kind of the only question. [laughs] I mean, it- it kinda dominates my own life, and I think the lives of a lot of young people.

Briahna Joy Gray: I certainly hope you're right.

Henry Williams: Thank you so much.

Briahna Joy Gray: Thank you.

Mike Gravel: The people must know the full story of what has occurred over the past 20 years within their government. The story is a terrible one. It is replete with duplicity, connivance against the public and public officials. I know of nothing in our history to equal it, for extent of failure and extent of loss, in all aspects of the term. People, human beings, are being killed as I speak to you tonight.

Briahna Joy Gray: I'm so glad to be joined tonight by several more recent members of the campaign to talk about how their recent experiences as members of the Bernie 2020 campaign has changed how they perceive the candidate, 'cause I think sometimes on the podcast and in other places, we talk mostly with kind of true believers, Bernie bros or broads, if you will, and I wanted to get the perspective of someone who's a relative outsider to see how working on the campaign, particular working in comms, has perhaps affected their perception of what's real, what's fake, fake news, all those kinds of things. So, can we go around and introduce ourselves briefly, and just say what your title and what your name is?

Delaney Vandergrift: Yeah, I can start. My name is Delaney Vandergrift. I'm the HBCU organizing manager.

Lexi Kresslein: My name is Lexi Kresslein, I am a comms intern.

Cyré Velez: My name is Cyré Velez. I'm also a comms intern.

Raiya Al-Nsour: My name is Raiya Al-Nsour, and I'm a policy intern.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, we have HBCU outreach, we have comms, we have policy. I want to start with you two, because we all sit next to each other in the comms team. And your job involves looking at basically everything that's written about the candidate every day. So, I'm curious, has that affected your perception of what's going on here?

Lexi Kresslein: Yeah. So, I've always been a Bernie supporter since he was the first candidate that I voted for. Even then, though, I kind of had this like perception that his supporters were sort of like conspiracy theorist-y. [laughs] Because I would read headlines about polls and see, oh, Hillary Clinton's leading, and I just took that to be like the truth. And now, coming onto the campaign, and seeing like the chyrons on TV, and the headlines that say certain candidates are leading, when it's actually not necessarily the case always. Or the poll is more nuanced than they let on to be.

Briahna Joy Gray: Cyré , do you have any...

Cyré Velez: Yeah.

Briahna Joy Gray: ... like examples, like the worst one that you've seen so far?

Cyré Velez: Yeah, so absolutely, most recently was today, on CNN, the high... the chyrons said, specifically focused on two candidates that were not Bernie, when the poll was who is leading right now among Latino voters in California? And Bernie was in second place, and he was not anywhere in the headline.

So, you think about people who aren't so involved in politics who just kind of skim or watch the news, to them, they would say, "Oh, okay, these two candidates are leading. Great." It even took me, I had to look twice to see that, wait a minute, Bernie was at 25%. Not in the third-place spot, so.

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah, the headline was like, it talked about who's in first and who's in third, and it was just like this open omission.

Cyré Velez: Right.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, Delaney, you have been doing this HBCU outreach.

Delaney Vandergrift: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Briahna Joy Gray: We just came off of this tour a couple of weeks ago. And so, you're kind of in the trenches, talking to students on campus. Do you think that this kind of media bias or Bernie blackout stuff, if you will, does it translate to what these kids know about, or what questions they have for you?

Delaney Vandergrift: Oh, yeah. It's like, it's really weird. One, I think they're always shocked to like know how many people of color are behind the scenes on this campaign. I know, even I was like, oh my gosh, there's so many folks on the campaign. And then I think like questions about, how are we gonna pay for all of these things? They always get directed towards Bernie. And it's because the headlines are always like, just saying that these things are impossible, or like they're brand-new, and that's just not true at all.

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah.

Delaney Vandergrift: Yeah.

Briahna Joy Gray: And so that brings me to, from a policy perspective, I mean, you're in the trenches really working on all of this, and working out all the pay-fors, and you know first-hand that we have the most comprehensive and detailed plans out there. You know, how has working in the policy shop changed, if at all, how you're thinking about the 2020 race?

Raiya Al-Nsour: Sure. So, I can tell you that we put an excruciating amount of effort into our plans. There's a level of thoughtfulness and care we go about doing this work that I don't think I've quite seen anywhere else that I've been, only to be misrepresented in the media, or to have a figure that we state not included, and people say that we don't say how we're gonna pay for anything. And this Bernie blackout has been just that much clearer to me, having been on the policy team, and understanding this policy, really, very well, thoroughly.

And I think, you know, on the topic of the Bernie blackout, specifically on the topic of foreign policy, for me, that's one of my issues, and hearing that he isn't the foreign policy candidate, and seeing that splattered all over the media is just downright disingenuous.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, people might know that I'm a little bit of a Twitter vigilante. My response to this, my instinct, is to just kinda go online and be like, "But wait a minute, actually..." But seeing as how you guys are dealing with the communities from your constituency, outreach, or just talking to your friends and family, do you have any advice about what's worked for you in terms of getting people to see things more from the perspective that you've had, either for a while, or has evolved from working on the campaign?

Lexi Kresslein: I think just like paying more attention. Like if you think that you're paying enough attention, then do more to inform yourself. I've always considered myself to be like pretty politically involved, I always did read the news. But it took like being in a position where I had, you know, I was doing this like as a... something for the campaign, to realize that, oh, I wasn't like reading it closely enough.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Lexi Kresslein: Like, there were stuff, even now, when we were talking about that chyron today, I missed something about like the way that they changed the poll in the background.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Lexi Kresslein: It was a different poll. Yeah, I just think stay informed, do as much as you can. Talk to a bunch of people.

Briahna Joy Gray: When you... when you talk to people at home, like over Thanksgiving, or over the holidays, do you bring it up? Do you... have you had any of these conversations with people... your intimates in your life?

Lexi Kresslein: I have a lot of conversation with Uber drivers.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Lexi Kresslein: Because they, you know, like Uber drivers always ask what you do, try not to like get too into detail, but I'll say I work in a campaign, and they'll always be... it's like, Bernie is one of the first people that I feel like they always know.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Lexi Kresslein: Um... [laughs] and they'll be like, "Oh, that Bernie guy, he's... [laughs] he doesn't have a plan to pay for any of this." That's like what they always say.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Lexi Kresslein: So, I'm like, "Well..."

Briahna Joy Gray: [laughs]

Lexi Kresslein: "What do you think that he doesn't have a plan to pay for?"

Briahna Joy Gray: Right, yeah.

Lexi Kresslein: I'm sure you all find yourself in this position too, but with families and at parties, you often find yourself having to become the de facto Bernie surrogate.

Briahna Joy Gray: Oh, yeah.

Raiya Al-Nsour: And it's concerning, because people that you know and love are parroting I would say right-wing talking points from the media, and a lot of their questions, you know, while they may be submitting them in good faith, oftentimes it is using a certain framework...

Briahna Joy Gray: Yeah.

Raiya Al-Nsour: ... that I think is just totally devoid of really any moral courage.

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Raiya Al-Nsour: So, how are you gonna pay for this? Questions that are usually platform don't really take into consideration. The morality of our plans, I feel, a lot of times.

Delaney Vandergrift: Yeah. I think also it requires a lot of patience. Because you recognize that there's actually a machine...

Briahna Joy Gray: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Delaney Vandergrift: ... that is spewing just misinformation. So, when people do have these like right-wing talking points, or they just say things that I'm like, "What are you talking about?" I'm like, oh, okay. Like, you watch the news, so of course you think these things, because nobody is telling you the truth, unless it's like coming from a supporter or the campaign.

Cyré Velez: I also try really hard not to get discouraged, 'cause on the other side of the Bernie blackout, it's like, Lexie and I literally read pretty much everything, or we read every headline, as well as Tweets. So, we not only see the negative side or the exclusion of Bernie, but also how big his support is in his base. And, you know, I think if you don't get discouraged about that, then you can really look past all the blackout stuff.

Lexi Kresslein: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Cyré Velez: And see how big our base is and stuff like that, you know?

Briahna Joy Gray: Thank you for that, and that's a really good point, and a really good perspective. And it's a perspective that I get often from going on the road. That's the biggest wake-up call for me, to realize that in fact it's not all of the misinformation that you get online. There's a very different world out there, and of course on Hear the Bern, we're gonna keep bringing you the facts as we have them, the policy details as we're generating them, clearing up all of the misinformation as it's being explained to us by our fabulous interns here, and being out on the road, door to door, knocking doors, going on college campuses, educating everyone, so that we can continue to spread the words to our friends and family. So, keep tuning in, and thank you so much for joining us here today. Thank you, ladies.

Group: Thank you.

Ryan Grim: He's running up against this huge problem, though, that I mentioned earlier, this media blackout, you know, that in the Democratic primary, this network, and the New York Times, have an enormous amount of influence. He often either gets ignored, or kind of just, kind of laughed at as not a serious candidate. Even when polls come out showing him, you know, in reasonable contention.

Briahna Joy Gray: I'm so glad to be joined by Emily Isaac, our relational organizing director, phoning in from the road to help explain to us all about the new BERN app. Hi, Emily.

Emily Isaac: Hi, I'm so excited to be here.

Briahna Joy Gray: You are talking to me because you are a BERN app aficionada. Am I right?

Emily Isaac: Yes, that's right.

Briahna Joy Gray: [laughs] So, if somehow there are people out there that know what the BERN app is, can you tell them?

Emily Isaac: So, the BERN app is our campaign's organizing app. It is our secret weapon to win the primary, and then the general, and win all of our legislative fights and afterwards. And what it allows us to do is to tell the campaign, "Hey, these are the people in my life who I'm gonna take responsibility for organizing, for mobilizing, and for bringing into our movement."

Briahna Joy Gray: So, that's so great, because as someone who is relatively new to politics, when I hear the word organizing, I think, "Oh, gosh, I... that's kind of opaque, it's something that someone else does, not just me." But this app makes it a lot more accessible. So, one, first and foremost, where can people find the app?

Emily Isaac: BERN is accessible on the Apple app store, Google Play wherever you get your apps. And we also have a limited web version at app.berniesanders.com.

Briahna Joy Gray: Okay. So, I have already gone to the app store and downloaded the app by searching B-E-R-N, BERN. But I also know that we just came out with a new update. If I already have the app on my phone, do I need to do anything, or does it automatically update?

Emily Isaac: You should go to your app store and update and install the new version of the app, which has a ton of new cool features. We have added like a videos tab, and a friends tab, so you can do follow-up with all of your friends, the app will tell you the best ways that you can be reaching out to your friends. Definitely reinstall the app to get the update.

Briahna Joy Gray: Okay. So, I know that one of the things that I love about this app, particularly the new update, is that you can forward videos that you love to your friends directly through the app. So, you will get an- an update, you can conceivably get an update that there's new videos and stuff. And when you see that, you can flag it and go ahead and forward it directly, and not have to worry about, oh, does my friend use Twitter, is my mom on Facebook? You can just forward it through the app. So, that's my personal spark for me, given that we have Hear the Bern, you can access Hear the Bern through the app. But what is the main core purpose, how should people be using the app for organizing?

Emily Isaac: Yeah, so the primary function of BERN is growing our- our movement, bringing more people into the political revolution. So, when you download BERN, what you should do is create an account and log in under the volunteers tab. And think through your personal network. Who are your friends and family, colleagues, classmates, who you can be talking with about Bernie, and in turn, when you add them to your friends list in the app, the campaign will give you the resources that you need to have the most proactive and effective conversations with those friends.

So, for example, if your friend lives in a state where you need to be a registered Democrat in order to participate in the primary and vote for Bernie, we will tell you that through the app. We will tell you, "Hey, please reach out to these three friends who need to change their party affiliation in order to vote, and this is their deadline to do that. Here's the link." And then it's a text message to help you send them that message and make sure that everyone, all of our supporters, know when, where, how to vote in this primary.

Briahna Joy Gray: That's so sophisticated, and I... and I love that, because for even people who are undecided, knowing how important it is to vote and just to get registered, figuring out who is registered and who's not, is such a universally applicable goal. I put the names of all my family and friends in that I knew offhand, discovered that my brother apparently isn't registered, so he's gonna get a talking to over the Christmas break, over the holidays.

So, I also see here that you can record your own Bernie story- story, through the app. What is the advantage of doing it through the app in this way?

Emily Isaac: Yeah, so what we know through decades of research, but also just as organizers, is that sharing our personal stories about how our lives and the lives of the ones we love, will change under a Bernie presidency. That is the most effective way of persuading voters to join us, and persuading people who are maybe on the fence about Bernie is through sharing our personal stories.

So, the BERN app allows you to record a one to two-minute video about why you personally are supporting Bernie, what's at stake for you in this election. And then it makes it really easy to share that video with all of your friends. And when your friends watch the video, they have the option to fill out a survey beneath your video, telling you and telling the campaign if they're on board, and what issues they care about.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, I gotta ask you, how much is this a competitive advantage for us? Do any other campaigns have anything like this?

Emily Isaac: BERN is a first of its kind tool. And we are the only campaign that has an app that allows us to do all sorts of different things, such as recording our personal story, finding out if our friends are registered to vote, a place to find all of our campaign videos. This is something that our team developed, and definitely is a competitive advantage because we have such a passionate base of supporters who are engaging with the app and using it to, like I said, grow our movement.

Briahna Joy Gray: So, I want to follow up, and just implore everybody to download the app. If you're listening to this podcast, that already suggests some level of commitment or interest in the Bernie campaign. So, even if you're still thinking about who you're gonna support, download the app, because one of the most interesting functions, that I find the most useful functions, is to be able to stay in a conversation with someone who might have a question about, you know, what is Bernie Sanders' environmental policy? What is his criminal justice policy? How does his housing policy stand unique from the other candidates? You can go and pull up policies with a simple touch of a button here on this app, and have everything there is to know about Bernie Sanders right there at your fingertips.

If I know anything about Bernie supporters, it's that they care about policy more than anybody else I've ever spoken to. They know why they're voting for Sanders, and having those policy details at your fingers, in your mind, is I think what's driving a lot of the commitment to this campaign.

So, for someone who's just downloading it, can you give them a quick instruction on what- what you think the number one thing for them to do in the app should be when they... when they first download it?

Emily Isaac: So, when you first download the app, go to the volunteer tab, you'll see it right in the bottom of the app, volunteer. Create an account, so it'll ask you for your email and to set a password. Then you'll have access to our incredibly powerful organizing portion of the app, where you can survey your friends, you can add your friends directly to the app. And I should mention, we never ask for the contact information of your friends.

So, when we talk about adding our friends to the app, we're not... the campaign is not asking you for their phone number or email, you're not opting them in for campaign communications. What you're saying is, "Hey, I'll take point for organizing these voters for the campaign." And in turn, we'll give you the critical information that you need in order to do that. So, to... when is early voting starting, when is the election, do they need to change their party affiliation, how can we make sure that they have everything they need to actually turn out and vote.

So, that is definitely step one. And then I'll also note that you can find events near you under the events tab. You can see all of the events that are happening in your area. We have thousands and thousands of events all over the country. This is an amazing way to meet other Bernie supporters in real life. And to become part of the volunteer team.

Briahna Joy Gray: I love that, because people reach out to me all the time asking me how they can get more involved. Emily Isaac, thank you so much for taking the time. I see you're hailing from the road right now. Where are you?

Emily Isaac: Yep. I'm in Reno, Nevada. I'm visiting our amazing field stuff, actually training them on how we can be empowering our volunteers even more to engage friends, family, colleagues, classmates, to join our movement, because all of the research shows that friend to friend outreach, you know, a friend reaching out to a friend, is the most effective voter contact that we can do. It's the most effective way that we can be persuading voters and turning out voters. So, it's absolutely critical, and that's, in my mind, what this is what people power is. People power, we have it, we have people, and we can make a real difference in this election when we engage the people in our life.

Briahna Joy Gray: Well, thank you so much for taking the time, and thank you so much for doing the work out there. Uh, I'll see you when you're back at HQ.

Emily Isaac: All right. Thanks, Briahna.

Briahna Joy Gray: That's it for this week. As we head into the new year, we'll be back with episodes covering the big ideas and one of a kind personalities that make this campaign unlike any that has ever come before.

You may have noticed that recently, we've held off on those best of Bernie compilation videos. You can thank our podcast producer, Ben Dalton, who apparently loves at least two things: making more work for himself, and Bernie Sanders. [laughs] We hope you enjoy these weekly full conversations as we drive on towards the Iowa caucus, and everything that comes next.

Next week, though, we are reupping one of our favorite early episodes, featuring a conversation between a Bernie staffer, Bianca Marquez, and her father, on whether we should embrace the term Democratic socialism. If you haven't already heard it, be sure to tune in.

Feel the Bern is produced by me, Briahna Joy Gray, Ben Dalton, and Christopher Moore. Let us know what you think at [email protected], or always take to Twitter with the hashtag #HearTheBern. Seriously, I check the hashtag, I will see your comments, let me know what you think. I love to read your feedback on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get these episodes, so be sure to rate, review, or like us whenever you get a chance.

I'll see you all in 2020. I have a feeling it's gonna be our year.